Five things we recently learned about difficult conversations

In season two episode six of our Reimagining Government podcast, co-hosts Adrian Brown, Harriet Hunter, and Karen Lawson discuss how to have difficult conversations. They highlight:

• Complexity and difficult conversations within government

• Why it’s important to have difficult conversations

• How we can approach difficult conversations with care

• Common mistakes and pitfalls when approaching difficult conversations

In the episode we speak to Gamal Turawa, Founder and Managing Director at Purplefrog Connections, about his experience with complexity and difficult conversations in leadership.

Listen to the full episode below or click here.

5 things we recently learned about difficult conversations

Here are 5 things we learned about difficult conversations in leadership from season two, episode six of Reimagining Government.

To have difficult conversations, we must understand what we bring

We first spoke to Gamal about his work as a consultant supporting high-performing organisations. He believes one of the key points to tackling difficult conversations is to truly understand who we are and what we bring to each one. He said:

“It's all about knowing what we bring. How aware are we of what we're carrying into those spaces and who we are in those spaces? Because we're never just one person. It reminds me of a Japanese quote that says, “We are all three people”.

— I am who I think I am. I am who you think I am. And I am who I truly am. —

It’s about finding ways to make all three align as much as possible. And for me, to be aware of who you think I am depends on where I am and who I'm with. Am I here as Gamal, or am I here as a consultant? Or am I here as an ex-police officer? What space am I in when I'm with you? And more often than not, leaders are in spaces where they're more concerned about who they think they should be rather than who they are.”

There’s power in individual conversations

Gamal went on to speak about the connection between difficult conversations and the importance of power in public service. Our co-host, Karen Lawson, added her thoughts on courageous discussions between government and individuals. She said:

“I think it’s about who we're talking to. Do we have groups or individuals that we talk to or rely on? Who are the people we actually need to be having courageous conversations with? Who might we be avoiding? Having individual time with people cannot be underestimated. So while we might think the government's huge, there's something about the power of an individual conversation.”

Change happens in difficult conversations

Difficult conversations allow change to happen. They open the door for new emotions, connections, and perspectives. Karen said:

“Ralph Stacey (British professor and business theorist) says ‘change happens one conversation at a time’. And there’s something about learning being an emotive thing. We’re changed when we feel that connection. And I think that's sometimes what we really need to work on in government.”

Harriet added:

“What strikes me is how unaware we might be of the power we hold in a system, and are we open to finding out about that? Are we going to have those difficult conversations? Also, not dismissing the fact that power is a part of what's going on, and that change involves a shift in power and relationships. And if you are a powerful person, wherever you are in the system, you’re going to need to shift that power in some way. It’s a courageous thing to be involved in but a necessary thing to do.”

Discomfort in difficult conversations is an indicator of power

During the episode, Adrian spoke about the relationship between being uncomfortable in difficult conversations and positional power. He said:

“​​Having a sense of discomfort in difficult conversations is almost an indicator of power or an absence of power. And we actually have our own internal radar for detecting when we’re close to power. If you’re going to have a conversation and you’re thinking, ‘I'm pretty nervous about this’, or ‘I'm feeling uncomfortable about this situation’, ask yourself why. How does it relate to your own position or relationship with the situation you find yourself in?”

Leaders should be more open to having difficult conversations

We also spoke to Gamal about how leaders should be more open to having difficult conversations and how they tend to fall into the trap of not showing failings or vulnerabilities. Harriet said:

“This mindset that leaders should not make mistakes can really breed a hostile environment that pushes us further away from solving complex issues constructively and efficiently.”

She then asked Gamal how we can bring new approaches to discussing complex issues if we’re afraid to fail. He said:

“When training leaders, you can’t just talk about vulnerability. You have to show them what it looks like, and you have to allow them to experience it with you and see how powerful it can be. You have to model it in some ways. We’re perfectly imperfect. It’s okay to not have all the answers.”

The full conversation about difficult conversations is available now on all major podcast listening platforms. To listen, use the player below or click here.